Tuesday, July 22, 2014

Haiku MasterClass: Query Dalvir - I

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Dalvir Gill‎Haiku MasterClass
September 5, 2012 ·
..and the hand slips from yours ...
and the face you love at peace.
her final journey ...ll ...ll
l
Dalvir Gill
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Questions I Have about haiku:
1. As to English words ending in "ed". I am not certain of the proper syllable count. For example; the bathed, one syllable or 2? The word stabbed, same question? how about intrigued, 2 or 3?
2. Is it ok to write haiku to be purposefully humorous?
3. Is it acceptable to write one 14 syllable sentence instead of in "verses"?
4. Where can I learn more about kigo?
I think that is everything I have come up with so far.
Thank you for your time!
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  • Kame San -1-My Mac has a dictionary that separates syllables, I found it very useful... -2- "-ed" is of course additional syllable (but use it only when natural, changing tense in a poem is sensible) -3- "bathed" is logically two syllables, the same "stabbed" and "intrigued" is three, all this is one question not three... Place of humor in haiku depends of author only. In time of "haikai" humor was often, later more serious poets came but it is up to you. I think this is similar as with emotions: true emotions and true humor must be good, false emotions and false humor are aways bad... In Japanese haiku specified overruns of number of syllables has meaning i.e. overrun is poetic tool. In Western haiku it is not possible but generally is acceptable that within 17 syllables you can design specific lines according to your needs. PLUS using foreign words (as well as proper names) changes your obligation (you are not obliged to follow natural rhythm when you are not in natural situation, the same is for "kigo"!... Very naturally!) --- "Kigo" comes from Japanese culture, so it is very hard to learn all just by the way. Remember that kigo is a word with symbolic meaning (when you say "autumn" you attach to the poem emotion of autumn etc.) The best way to learn "kigo" is to get connected with nature. Use natural topics to express your emotions. Any word from nature can be a kigo for you in the beginning (and later but in different way). For example "river", it is so called "muki-kigo" ... You cannot solve it all fast. It is very long journey to understand it all, if ever... But important thing is being "on the way" (of learning). Being "on the way" is already a success... Do not hesitate to ask...
    September 2, 2012 at 3:50pm · Like · 1
  • Kame San PS. Good thing in English counting syllables is that many syllables are "broad". So sometimes you can count them 2, sometimes only 1 (most often). That flexibility is very important!
    September 2, 2012 at 3:52pm · Like · 1
  • Deborah Anne Steinau Thank you, very much for your information. I completely agree with you PS. Somehow to say bath - ed or stab - ed is very awkward. I did not seem inappropriate to use those as one syllable words. It is what I would apply if I was writing song lysrics, which I do. I am going to post a humorous haiku I wrote a few weeks ago. let me know what you think.
    September 2, 2012 at 3:59pm · Like
  • Dalvir Gill Even though Kame San has answered in detail, this might help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_kigo
    September 2, 2012 at 4:10pm · Like
  • Deborah Anne Steinau Dalvir, thank you very much!
    September 2, 2012 at 4:11pm · Unlike · 1
  • Kame San Mechanic learning Japanese kigo is perhaps not the best way to learn kigo, later ...
    September 2, 2012 at 4:13pm · Like
  • Dalvir Gill but, I'll suggest to follow but Kame San Said,"Build and deepen a personal relationship with nature." Thanks for asking these questions, for they say the only stupid question is the question not asked.
    September 2, 2012 at 4:15pm · Like · 1
  • Kame San There is a saying that kigo must be born in poet's heart (not in the list or book). So the best way to practice kigo is finding nature... Without any doubt...
    September 2, 2012 at 4:15pm · Like · 1
  • Dalvir Gill hahahahaha Kame San, I was going there too, where you already are
    September 2, 2012 at 4:17pm · Like · 2
  • Kame San I know Darwill that you wanted to help, do not worry... -)
    September 2, 2012 at 4:17pm · Like · 1
  • Kame San Deborah, find books from R.H.Blyth about haiku and start read, this is my advice too.
    September 2, 2012 at 4:55pm · Like · 1
  • Dalvir Gill
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Attention: Johannes Manjrekar. Girls play kotla shapaki.
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Dhido Gill:
an ultra sound test center
in the court yard
girls playing Kotla Shapaki*
*Kotla Shapaki is a playing game where school girls in a group play in a circle .
The painting/painter : Unknown
Haiga: Dalvir Gill
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.................
an ultra sound test center
in the court yard
girls playing Kotla Shapaki .....................
............................................................
Kotla Shapaki is a playing game where school girls in a group play in a circle .
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  • Johannes Manjrekar Very nicely written! Yes, the shame and tragedy of sex-selective abortion and even female foeticide.
    August 29, 2012 at 10:05am · Unlike · 2
  • Dhido Gill thanks.....Johannes Manjrekar,,,,,,,,,,,I hope you understand game " Kotla Shapakee "
    August 29, 2012 at 10:08am · Like
  • Johannes Manjrekar I grew up in South India and now live in Gujarat. So far as I know Kotla Shapakee is not played in either region, unless it has a different local name. Please tell me what the game is like. Meanwhile, I still appreciate the spirit and sense of your haiku
    August 29, 2012 at 11:23am · Like
  • Kame San I found this at internet: "This was another game played by boys and girls at home but in some places children could be seen sitting in a circle in a park or a street. Over a dozen boys and girls sat in a round circle facing each other while one player with a rope or a dupata in the hand made rounds, singing "Kotla Chapaki Jumme Raart Aayi Ae, Jeda Agge Piche Chaaku Ohdi Shaamat Aayi Ae" and daring others to raise their heads.
    The moment someone turned around, the dupata came down hard on his or her back, prompting the player to run in circles with the dupata-holder close on the player’s heels."
    August 29, 2012 at 11:35am · Like · 2
  • Kame San As I can understand haiku it speaks about sexual selection because the game Kotla Shapaki is normally played by both: boys and girls... Thank you for socially engaged haiku Dhido san!
    August 29, 2012 at 11:41am · Like · 1
  • Kala Ramesh Very interesting thread. Thanks Dhido. I grew up completely in Chennai and I've never heard of this game. You've got an excellent jux here.
    August 29, 2012 at 12:08pm · Unlike · 1
  • Dalvir Gill Dhido Gill, 22g, really great! In Punjabi/Indian context, today, this is a horrific truth. Congratulations! I've found a picture and am going to post it in this group.
    August 29, 2012 at 2:45pm · Like · 1
  • Kame San May I ask one to describe the topic?
    August 29, 2012 at 3:26pm · Like · 1
  • Dalvir Gill Kame San, like Johannes Manjrekar has pointed. So many people who just want to beget sons, kill their daughters in embryo form... and sometimes, even after birth. The Kotla-Chhpaki ( a kids' game in Rural Punjab is going on in the courtyard of one of those "Test-Centers makes a perfect and perfectly disturbing scenario
    August 29, 2012 at 3:37pm · Like · 1
  • Dane Ann Smith-Johnsen When I think of an ultra-sound test center, I think of physicians trying to figure out how to cure something...like cancer or tumors or something not so good. So for me, the children were outside playing in their own happy world completely protected and unaware of the problem of a mother or father inside...being tested. Funny how we can think so differently about the same words. Interesting.
    August 29, 2012 at 7:23pm · Unlike · 1
  • Kame San I understan now, thanks Dalvir Gill for this direct explanation. Thanks Dhido Gill and all you guys who support engaged authors! Poets must open eyes to people about world that surrounds us... I admire you all!... You see Dane, that is why multicultural haiku is really need, only multicultural exchange makes us broader and bigger, opening our small limited worlds into bigger picture of humanity...! Thanks!
    August 31, 2012 at 1:38pm · Unlike · 1
  • Dalvir Gill
Harki Virk :
Kath'thak dancers
Speak through the gestures
Zipped lips
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  • Kame San Thanks Dalvir for introducing Kath'thak dancers through the poem of Harki Virk! Today we had two poems about nature of perception and you now offer poem about nature of expression: "Zipped lips" are telling point. I like to see a poem written capitals on the beginning of the line! Greetings to Harki Virk!
    August 29, 2012 at 7:21am · Unlike · 1
  • Kala Ramesh Dalvir, Isn't it Kathak dancers? Please check. If you are meaning one of our classical dances, then it's Kathak.

    One more point is - it's always better to check / know more about the topic you are writing. All the four dancers are wearing Bharatnatyam costumes. Which is the classical dance of Tamilnadu.
    Sorry, but I had to point out these few errors.
    August 29, 2012 at 9:06am · Like
  • Dalvir Gill Kala Ramesh, you must be right, you always are. This is the haiga I made from Harki Virk\s photograph and her haiku
    August 29, 2012 at 8:06pm · Like · 1
  • Kala Ramesh Thanks Dalvir. No, I can be wrong - I am wrong many times. Just that when it comes to Indian music and dances, I think I do know a little bit?

    In Tamizh we have a beautiful saying, which is often quoted:
    What one has learnt is just a handful of sand. what one hasn't learnt is as big as the world.
    August 29, 2012 at 8:17pm · Like
  • Dalvir Gill No, I agree, Kathak dress is more like Choorhi-daar Pajami and it's Bharatnatyam dress. I understand, truth and fact are two different things. This haiku could be about 'mime' as well. I liked and made a haiga.
    August 29, 2012 at 8:19pm · Like
  • Kala Ramesh Just say 'dancers' and all the errors are removed?!! Yes?
    August 29, 2012 at 8:22pm · Like
  • Kala Ramesh The spelling for Kathak is wrong here. Harki has spelt it as Kaththank. So it comes in the way of the reade's understanding. Then I looked closer to see what this "new dance' from India is and I see them wearing Bharatnatyam dress. So the clash, happened. :))
    August 29, 2012 at 8:30pm · Like
  • Kala Ramesh I understood about the 'mime' part. It comes clear in L 3.
    August 29, 2012 at 8:31pm · Like
  • Kala Ramesh And another thing: If you want to see to the aesthetics of this art form - I think the poet's name is just too big across the border. It is generally put in the extreme corner - in much smaller font size than the actual poem. Just a thought
    August 29, 2012 at 8:35pm · Like
  • Kala Ramesh Hi Harki, please do call me just Kala. I'm happy you've enjoyed my haiku poems.
    Thank you so much for this reply. Yes, very true. Outside India, when it's not a professional individual dancer, then the costume could be any and the dance could be mixed    . Even in India that happens. But - having said that - since all the dancers are in one type of costume, we as writers / poets, could be more accurate in what we say in our poems.
    Just 'dancers' would be sufficient in a haiga - since the photo is there to add more :))
    August 29, 2012 at 10:12pm · Like · 1
  • Dalvir Gill
On the summer sky
two clouds diverge: my friend
and his wife divorce
---Dimitar Anakiev
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her hair
the smell of after-rain
a soaked hug
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Dimitar, thank you for your efforts. I too feel a need to leave as I've learned all about your 'likes' and 'dislikes' and the ways people can be controlled and batched and subordinated by nationalities, genders, mindsets.
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through the breeze
the river stands still
I flow
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a tall girl
passing by an eucalyptus tree
a sudden gust of wind
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lips flapping
loud the sound
where are the words...... ???
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when you cut off the legs
of someone else
it doesn't make you taller
(thanks to my late wife)
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sewing a patchwork
quilt of thoughts
my pen
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<
a crimsonesque Sun
i go to bed
with her
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it's visible
even with eyes shut tight
a valley of flowers
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If everybody
wants to be right...
what has happened to haiku..??
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technically correct
not my heart nor my soul...
not my poetry
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the stuffed dog
seems cuter than ever
disciplined, perfect
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poetic axioms
anticlimax
it's a beautiful life
on the low branches
I seldom see you -
vigilant tui
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tui_(bird)
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looking for an open sky
the clouds
this too shall pass...
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Kame San
August 13, 2012
Dimitar Anakiev
MORNING CHIRP ON DUPATTA
(using of symbolic words)
Only ten days passed since we started our work and participant are already able to recognize and use symbolic words in their poems. Yesterday participants spontaneously recognized the importance of words representing particular cultural aspect in their poems. Placed as subjects in haiku those words develop enormous poetic power bringing the whole universe of cultural meanings and emotions into the poem:
a jungle walk-
so many fireflies twinkle
around my black dupatta
--- Arvindur Kaur
my kurta wet
the bones all stick out
monsoon trek
---Kala Ramesh
to Ginza
to get a new pair
of geta
---Elaine Andre
crimson sun
a bhikshu meditates
on the leftovers
---Anirban Bhattacharya
gentle drizzle
falling on the ashoka leaves
drenching slowly
my linen dupatta
reveals my secrets
---Rosie Mann, Linda L. Ashok
Note that words coming from local culture like above used subjects of the poems: "dupatta", "kurta", "geta", "bhikshu"... has a quality of "nikukan" (vital warmth) and that is why Tohta Kaneko names such kind of words as "muki-kigo". That would mean, in my interpretation, a kind of kigo with broader meaning than seasonal i.e. symbolic words with emotional power coming from local culture. Not all local cultural words has the emotional power of symbols, only those which are born in the heart of poet i.e. the symbolic meaning must by proved in a poem. That is why, we, poets, must explore own culture through practice of writing haiku and that is why our culture must be in our hearts.The similar power of cultural meaning can be developed by using particular proper names from local cultures. In that way the mythology related to particular proper name is activated in haiku poem. Such are examples of "Krishna", "Pippal tree" and "Sawan" in following poems:
Krishna's hand snakes around
Radha-waist on Janm-Asthmi Pooja
Eternal lovers
---Dalvir Gill
chanting hymns
she walks around the Pipal tree-
soiled threads
---Arvindur Kaur
Sawan-
the rain calligraphy
on my window pane
--- Arvindur Kaur
Finally, let me pay your attention on symbolic worlds that are not coming from local culture but from branches of universal knowledge, like astrology, mathematics, music etc. which used as a subjects of poems open unexpected dimension of meaning. I call all these words "key-words" in the narrow sense although all above mentioned symbolic words, as well as "kigo", have the quality of "key-word". Many such words were used by poets participating in HMC these days but for now I want here to pay your attention on "perseids", "7/8 beats", "fractal", "geometry" and "coal reserve" in following poems:
august night~
the perseids
blocked by clouds
---Shawn Lee Whitney
heat...
a drum beats the seconds
in seven-eighths
---Maya Lyubenova
luxuriant wet hair -
she trickles a fractal path down
the glassy wood floor
---Charan Gill
at dusk
a raven fathoms
geometry
---Linda A. Ashok
with 5 bronze medals*
just pulling along--
India's coal reserves may exhaust by 2040
---Manu Kant
*Olympic games 2012 London
Happy writing of poems!
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all the messiahs
come, bend, open, thank goodness
I'm me
'am the summit
with a blanket on the nib of my pen
wonderful I
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those, who are
looking for fear in my eyes are just
wasting their time
Nâzım Hikmet
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