departing autumn--
a few dreams lie scattered
on the cobbled streetUnlikeUnlike · · Stop Notifications · Share · October 26, 2012
- You, Sarbjit Singh, Jaswinder Singh, Marianne Yesche Walmo and 34 others like this.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=437029873000221&set=gm.396011807139000&type=1 
Vicky Sandhu ਉਪਰੋਕਤ ਸਤਰਾਂ ਰੀਡ ਕਰ ਕੇ ਬਹੁਤ ਹੀ ਚੰਗੀਆਂ ਲਗੀਆਂ, ਮੇਰੇ ਵਲੋਂ few words respected Arvinder Kaur ji nu
ਸਰਦ ਰੁੱਤ ਆਈ -
ਬਿਖਰੇ ਕੁਝ ਸੁਫਨੇ
ਉਸ ਗਲੀ ਵਿਚ
- Dalvir Gill oh i thought you knew, you can do that with any photo you every uploaded to any group. like say, if you just posted it in punjabi and now you want to add translation to it, or anything. see! that's an idea.lol
- Arvinder Kaur yes i used to do that on my wall.....but didn't think of doing it on a haiku site ! funny though !
- Arvinder Kaur ਜਾਂਦੀ ਪਤਝੜ
ਪਥਰੀਲੀ ਰਾਹ ਤੇ ਗੁਆਚੇ
ਕੁਝ ਸੁਪਨੇ
( there can be a problem here...although it might sound poetic ,it is not '' jo hai so hai'' type !) - Dalvir Gill even if Haiku is not poetry, doesn't mean it can't be poetic. actually that is what i find rude when it gets harash treatment. this one is a fine 'ku.
Bee Jay The poetry in haiku lies in finding a juxtaposition between two different sense images. The words themselves are plain and unpoetic. This is the magic of haiku.- Bee Jay Often when the language is abstract or flowery. Your revision is a good one because the languahe is plain. The poetry is in the juxtaposition between the dreams and the scattered leaves, Dalvir.
- Dalvir Gill so am i getting it slowly? it's just i hate any 'hard & fast rules', otherwise i'm in total in sync with you. life is beautiful without any ornamentation, i agree, and haiku is, more than anything, life.. alive.
- Dalvir Gill I like Jane but Zen people don't have "Credo", remember. it's someone's approach and none of the two scholars are in agreement. one person opts rules and then starts arguing with the one who has picked other ones than the first. isn't it, again like Jane says, more of 'becoming' a person through whom haiku will come out. you should talk with Robert Johnston, he has produced more through his writings than Jane.
Elaine Andre Even words have a particular way they are spelled. We're back to the idea of music written without musical notation. Can anyone hear the song?- Dalvir Gill Elaine Karl Marx said,"All similies are lame." music is music and haiku is haiku. you should not talk to Robert Johnston. lol
- Elaine Andre Too funny! The problem is, you are saying that anything one decides to write will be a haiku if they label it 'haiku'. (I'll let RJ ask questions to birds who can't answer.) ... but we digress...
Robert Johnston Again, very nice - haiku and picture. I wonder about the determiners, "a few." It is kinda vague (and there are many leaves). Just "dreams lie scattered" seems fine. Or - if you wish to be more specific - you could say, for example, "my dreams ..." or "our dreams ..."- Dalvir Gill no haiku, no matter how "well"-written doesn't sound that ring of truth to it unless it's coming from that haiku-mind. and on the contrary a haiku even if failing to follow all the "rules" sounds genuine when coming from that state of mind. thought and thinker aren't really two different things. thanks Elaine, now i have this line added to my definition,"Haiku is music written without any notations." grass-hopper breaths now!
- Dalvir Gill Robert, i hate axioms! the un-popularity of your views, coming from the unfamiliarity with Thought, is what makes it important to me, please keep expressing them and you can post as many links as you like in this space. especially that 5-part paper.
- Elaine Andre You're a problem child, Grasshopper. You deliberately distort and have fun with the comments. You're gonna have to wax-on/wax-off again.
- Arvinder Kaur i am not so much for the ''rules'' although i do try to follow them ....roughly....and if they fit into my flow of thought easily.....i do not attach any labels....if my lines conjure up an image in front of the reader's eye,its enough for me....that's what i wanted to share anyway......yes,language and its modifications,even poetry fascinates me....and i am ready to change any word if it brings the image closer to my perception....i thoroughly appreciate all suggestions here...have enjoyed reading them....have learned also from them....agree with Robert Johnston that ''a few'' sounds vague....in fact i would love that specific feel in it......and thoroughly happy at being able to share at a platform that is so interactive ! thanks Dalvir !
Zen Anecdotes Of course haiku is poetry -if it is written properly, it is certainly not prose! Some would say it is an incantation or magical spell. The only way to get a sense of what haiku is, is to read the Masters ...who show the way clearly. The signposts point both back in time to China, and then forward in time from Japan. But even time is a illusionary construct, so don't stop there! Then, leave your PC screens behind and start experiencing what is right around 'you' with an empty and clear mind, and with your senses alert to the incredible essence of the all that is one, and the one that is all. If we do that, there will be no need for 'bling' or 'rules' ... the short form grew out of nothing into something in the past, and is what it is and serves to further. I trust it- Dalvir Gill Thanks Megan, this is going straihgt to my "HAiku Manifesto" . it's not about agreeing or disagreeing, for me, it's like belief.
- Zen Anecdotes I get what you mean, Dalvir, but have a problem with the word "belief"? I think it is because of our 'beliefs', which can trap one in an all or nothing way of thinking, that we argue about things? Even what I've written above makes assertions based on what I believe, lol! So I'll just add: "Based on my own experience and current level of consciousness.... this is what I think about haiku". I've now reached the point where to argue about it is a waste of precious energy, and I'm trying to get beyond belief and simply write what comes from a place that has no name ....
- Dalvir Gill on Jane's write-up it came up that,"it's not about how to write a haiku, but rather, about 'becoming/being' a person through whom haiku are revealed." i kinda feel that way. as you said," .... (Haiku) comes from a place that has no name...... " let it flow through you, that's it!
- Elaine Andre That word 'belief' keeps popping up in the strangest places. It is likely coming from a misunderstanding of the variance between Eastern and Western thought, which is a straw man argument that sucks energy, justifying a turn-off-the-road. Let's see some haiku instead.
- Dalvir Gill Arvinder, about your "....i am not so much for the ''rules'' although i do try to follow them ....roughly...." ll all i have to say is read "About" the group by clicking on 'about' tab next to the group name. LOL there's only only one rule. read in group's documents a write-up by Jane,"haiku rules that have come and gone. you will see everyone is sticking with one or more rules from that list. it's really big if Robert Johnston sees that way, there's always going to be well-established "schools" in ELH, around 60 in number. never stick to any!!
- Robert Johnston Love what Rosie said about your eternal song, Dalvir. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sv49jlyX-co
- Dalvir Gill thanks for the link, reverence! Rob bud. S. Swaran Singh Jee, Elaine's idea was to have 40 people around, but........ we are so far group of ten people and it can grow and in one sense is enough. your translation and a 'modification' of avinder's 'ku to make haiku-nize it generated so much energy. that we came up with a line by Robert,"Duality and Non-Duality aren't two.... "
- Robert Johnston Regardless of what I may or may not have previously said, I think dualism is almost a dirty word because it originates in a denial of the supernatural. All isms illogically or unreasonably separate the favored from the not-favored and do not provide an adequate account of reality.
"Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes."
- Walt Whitman 
Gabi Greve I am late on this one, just discovered it.
My problem is with the word HAIKU being used for so many different kinds of poetry lately.
I think Traditional Japanese Haiku has a set of "formal" criteria, stated clearly here
http://www.kyoshi.or.jp/inv-haiku/inv-haiku.htm.
.
ELH has a lot of made-up rules by various editors, but usually does not include all the "formal" criteria of the Japanese originals.
.
The author is free to call anything "EL haiku".
- - - But I guess
The reader is also free to call it something else (openly or just in his/her reader's mind).
Many ELH read like short form poetry to me.
.
It is indeed futile to discuss opinions.
.- Dalvir Gill Gabi! you and Elaine, share this problem. don't make it a problem. open up to life, all encompassing. if it is always gonna bother you then try to understand that some one can feel as bad when Haiku is pulled out of the realms of Zen, non duality, Tao, Tantra . my problem is when Haiku is made hhigher than god and i'm made to be on knees all the time worshiping those rules. i don't follow any rules. i surrendered, all is right for me gabi, elaine, robert, blyth, jane welsh or dick. i don't want to suggest them that what ever i have figured is right and for them to follow. you don't need rules to 'write' haiku but you do to "teach" haiku. i'm not teaching haiku, you guys are. that's why
http://www.facebook.com/.../39511772.../doc/396468617093319/
- http://
haikuplus.wordpress.com/ .............................................. ....
- http://
- Elaine Andre Dalvir, you began the list with comments gleened from elsewhere and set the tone of factionalism by your selection of quotes. This precipitates an atmosphere where you can make the above statements. I've tried to play and make light of it, but do not appreciate the selective quotes borrowed without permission for reprint.
Hopefully, this conversation is at a conclusion so that all will be able to get on with the haiku journey. - Dalvir Gill that's your observation, Robert had concluded on arvinder's post. and gabi cmae around 14 hours later. she took my one line the one she thought was 'anti' to her ideas and posted it with five of her own, questioning. and i made one of her line, that i agree to, quote of the day, without icing it with my opinion and you are teaching me american law. not fair, gal-pal :0
- Gabi Greve "gabi cmae around 14 hours later."
makes me smile, it is my night in Japan.... different time zones. . .
Is there a time limit for answering/ commenting here? - Dalvir Gill an hindi poet says,"don't declare the fog in dense in the sky, it's merely someone's interpretation." of course, in hindi it rhymes lol
- Dalvir Gill it's from the link above : Dalvir Gill : Arvinder, about your "....i am not so much for the ''rules'' although i do try to follow them ....roughly...." ll all i have to say is in "About" the group by clicking on 'about' tab next to the group name. LOL there's only only one rule. read in group's documents a write-up by Jane,"haiku rules that have come and gone." you will see everyone is sticking with one or more rules from that list. there are always going to be well-established "schools" in ELH, around 60 in number. never stick to any!!
- Dalvir Gill Gabi, i was scolded by Elaine Andre for taking your line and making it 'quote of the day'. and, i reminded her that you took my line out of context and challenged/questioned it ( your post on this group's wall ). and i changed it into a 'group document' and then she inboxed me, throwing shames on me. it was in response to that. no! there's no time or any kind limit for answering/commenting/skewing. so am i allowed to turn that "convo" into a group document?
- Gabi Greve Please feel free to use any of my input here in this group to use as a
"quote of the day".
Or make any document you see useful for the group.
.
For my comments in other forums,
please ask for permission before quoting here.
.
For anything published in the WKD, quote it and add the HTML where you found it.
.
cc Dalvir Gill - Zen Anecdotes Let's not forget Arvinder's lovely haiku here ...and it is, IMHO, written with the intent and spirit of what haiku is all about. It certainly equals some of offerings of those who have commented on this thread! Dalvir, you are in fact attempting to 'teach', by proxy! Not every poem we pen is memorable, but mindless bling is not haiku, and it saddens me when this is encouraged. I'm with Elaine and Gabi on this one. It is important and respectful to cite the source of quotes that you post from a public page or group. And if it is from a personal FB, or closed group, permission to do so goes without saying if you want to keep your FB friends!
- Dalvir Gill Megan, it started is post. I just wanted to point it to Elaine that Gabi took a line from there which "i didn't say." i say a million things that didn't interest Gabi, just something about 'rules" and she posted it with his responses. i took a line by Gabi and chose it as 'quote of the day' and didn't even comment it, leave alone 'boasting about breaking the rules.' all that has nothing to do with this thread, it never was. did Gabi come here to appreciate this haiku? read this conversation and then posts by Gabi and I. sorry if i come as a teacher. i foloow,"TEACHERS!! LEAVE US KIDS ALONE!!!. my pick of quote was from this very post and so was Gabi's i believe so no FB or otrher sites' rights were molested.
- Dalvir Gill now Gabi is okaying to make that a document and but Elaine not only quit this group but send me an inbox ( which i have not shared here, nor intend to. ) preaching the same thing, you did, and i LREADY KNOW AND respect, always. muchlove.
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